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Curbina's avatar

I just wanted to say that it is known from plain old chemistry that if you put Aliminium and water in contact, at near room temperature, and no need for ultrasound, a reaction will take place that creates Aluminium Hydroxide and releases H. Not to be antagonistic, just to illustrate what others may think is rather obvious and nothing to be surprised about, and may not understand “why all the fuzz about it”. Obviously ultrasound increases the rate of the reaction by adding temperature and stirring.

I am of course interested in the other things that happen in parallel under these conditions, as the evidence hints that this H may take part in nuclear reactions that transmute Aluminium into other elements and even gases. This is where the focus may be better understood.

Here’s a DOE report about production of H from Aluminium and water that states:

“ In the vicinity of room temperature, the reaction between aluminum metal and water to form aluminum hydroxide and hydrogen is the following: 2Al + 6H2O = 2Al(OH)3 + 3H2. The gravimetric hydrogen capacity from this reaction is 3.7 wt.”

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/aluminium_water_hydrogen.pdf

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

Simply not the point - this was known to me and said it up front.

I also shared the link to this USDOE paper in the original experiment page. I shared a paper on addition of ultrasonics (with reaction promotors) that I found AFTER running the experiment that was published in Dec 2023.

The point is about the location of synthesis and that it will be atomic for a period of time and so will have a magnetic moment which H2 does not have (never considered before in this context) and able to interact into the magneto-hydrodynamic structures. As I said in today's stream, another point is also to do the same test with Cu etc. and compare the effects with this test and with Huang's DHX-2.

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Gordon Docherty's avatar

Just a reminder, Stanley Pons was/is an Electrochemist, while Martin Fleischmann was a Chemist also working in electrochemistry - and it is thanks to the Chemists (including those working in Fluid Dynamics such as Mark LeClair!) that this whole field of research into Fractal Toroids opened up, through "Cold Fusion" to "Low Energy Nuclear Reactions" to "Condensed Matter Nuclear Science" to Fractal Toroids and their relation to Magneto-Hydro Dynamics.

Meanwhile, back in the Theoretical Physics Labs ... (sound of crickets) ;-)

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

Yes

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Martin's avatar

Just a general thought/question: if we are now calling the moment a toroidal rather than magnetic moment, how does this relate to the other two? Is it at right angles to both? So we have three ‘fields’ involved, or is it kind of suppressing/supplanting one of the others? How would this relate to the mathematical model of the bagel experiment? In relation to the dialectric and magnetic fields of electrical engineering is the toroidal moment a centrifugal/explosive or centripetal/implosive phenomenon, or both? Emerging out of of going int counterspace?

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

It is distinctly different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_moment

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Gordon Docherty's avatar

While electric dipoles can be understood as separated charges and magnetic dipoles as circular currents, axial (or electric) toroidal dipoles describes toroidal (donut-shaped) charge arrangements whereas polar (or magnetic) toroidal dipole (also called anapole) correspond to the field of a solenoid bent into a torus.

As a reminder, the term "moment" is actually a short-hand way of saying "moment of force" (or torque), the turning or twisting force on an object. It is a vector quantity that has a direction and a magnitude. Hence the existence of "torque spanners" that can be set to exert a torque force to a predetermined value.

Moment of force is the rotational analogue of linear force and is concerned with changes in angular momentum.

All moments of force are turning or twisting forces about a point or axis.

Now, the electric dipole moment involves a pair of equal and opposite charges, that separated by a fixed distance form an electric dipole. The moment - turning force or torque - produced by the electric charges arranged as a dipole is known as an electric dipole moment. Like the spanner, however, this torque only shows up when the dipole is placed in an electric field, and usually represents the net turning force of a whole collection of dipoles as they try to align with the field: no field, no torque; no dipole, no (electric) torque.

The magnetic dipole moment, on the other hand, involves a pair of two poles - North(N) and South (S) that form a magnetic dipole. The moment - turning force or torque - produced by a magnetic dipole is known as a magnetic dipole moment. Similar to the electric moment, the magnetic moment is a vector quantity used to measure the tendency of an object to interact with an external field, in this case a magnetic field: again, no field, no torque; no dipole, no (magnetic) torque.

The toroidal dipole moment is a little more complex. To quote Wikipedia (the relevant page having seemingly escaped the notice of the thought censors - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_toroidal_dipole)

In classical electrodynamics, the dynamic toroidal dipole arises from time-dependent currents flowing along the poloidal direction on the surface of a torus. In relativistic quantum mechanics, spin contributions to the toroidal dipole needs to be taken into account. Toroidal dipole moments are odd under parity and time-reversal symmetries. Dynamic toroidal dipole is distinguished from the static toroidal dipole introduced by Zeldovich in 1957 under the name of static anapole.

The dynamic toroidal multipoles were theoretically introduced in the 1970s in the context of a complete multipole expansion in electrodynamics and their radiation properties were studied in a series of theoretical works. The experimental study of dynamic toroidal multipoles, however, became possible only with advances in artificial electromagnetic materials (metamaterials), leading to the first experimental observation of the toroidal dipole, in 2010 in an array of microwave resonators with elements of toroidal symmetry.

The article then goes on to say:

The far-field radiation properties of the dynamic toroidal dipole are identical to those of the conventional electric dipole.

... but exactly 180 degrees out of phase. So, back to the article:

Hence combining a dynamic toroidal dipole with an electric dipole can result in a non-radiating charge-current configuration (termed dynamic anapole), in which the electromagnetic fields vanish outside the source, whereas the vector (actually, scalar!!!!) potential persists.

Tom Bearden's anapole model!

It then adds:

Non-radiating anapoles were observed experimentally for the first time in 2013 as peak of transmission of structured matter at microwave frequencies and in 2015 at optical wavelengths in nanoparticles. Electrodynamics of dynamic toroidal dipole and anapoles is now massively influencing research in metamaterials, nanoparticles, plasmonics, sensors, lasers and spectroscopy.

So, toroidal dipoles arise from time-dependent currents flowing along the poloidal direction on the surface of a torus. So, wherever there are current toruses arranged around a larger magnetic ring torus (like Bob's mandarin segments), toroidal dipoles will arise. For this, of course, you need a FRACTAL toroidal structure that has current rings at ever other level with magnetic rings in between.

Now, my own hunch is that toroidal dipole moments are not just electric dipole moments, but rather a new breed of moment of force devoid of the (far-field radiation) of electric dipoles enacted in the aether, a SCALAR moment (or, in other words, a longitudinal wave that exerts a turning force centered on the axis of the outermost toroid in the fractal toroidal structure). Further, the "dipole" comes not from Positive / Negative or North / South but Left Vortex / Right Vortex spin, with the turning force coming into play when the toroidal dipole is placed in a suitable context (a field of particles that it can interact with in some way, such as a metal electron lattice or a fluid or gas) In this sense, a toroidal moment is different from a magnetic or electric moment in that its "field" is the aether field, which, of course, means interacting with the field which makes matter itself !!!

Anyway, that's my take on - and understanding of - what the electric, magnetic and toroidal dipole moments are, and how they are both similar in nature (a separation into opposites and exerting a torque or twisting force in a specific field, a "field" being, of course, some underlying arrangement of "stuff" in the aether!) and different (magnetic, electric, aetheric)

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Martin's avatar

So there did seem to be a thing I couldn’t wrap my head around with the half-ring soliton in the pool. The basic direction of rotation could be portrayed as a screw type motion and when both ends are joined - as in a smoke ring this joined up with itself all the way round. So the smoke ring rolls along around itself. So this would create a negative pressure at one end and a positive pressure at the other like an Archimedes screw that draws up water. When joined up to itself as in a full ring soliton the two pressures would cancel one another out. But what we see in a half-ring soliton is not one positive and one negative end exposed to the atmosphere but two dimples/vortices. In order for this to be the case the rotational movement that propels the soliton forward can’t be identical to that which is causing the vortices since we would have the archimedes screw and not two downward spiralling vortices. So what you say about the left vortex/right vortex spin makes sense. The turnbuckle is a device for tensioning wires. It has a left hand threaded rod and a right hand threaded rod that are both in a separate piece that rotates around them. Such that it’s rotation one way brings the two threaded rods together, and when rotated in the opposite direction it causes them to move apart. Thus the threaded-ness is distinct from the overall direction of rotation - which is subject to the issue of chirality, unlike the threaded-ness which is more a case of screwing in/out.

Is this kind of on the right track? I’m trying to understand it in the most basic way but I like your point about the ether field. What do you think about the ether field? I imagine it as the real field and the other two as derivatives of it. Since time and space are emergent properties of it so it would be the exact opposite of what we imagine a field to be since it would be a point-source that is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

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Gordon Docherty's avatar

Yes, the aether is more fundamental, with the electric and magnetic fields being higher order. As to the two vortices, the one that “turns inwards” consumes matter, applying ever greater pressure until it forms aether strands that it weaves together- literally like spinning a thread or rope from individual strands - while the other “turns outwards”, opening out the thread back into the individual strands , reducing the pressure, so allowing the strands in turn to break up and reform into individual segments turned around like little balls of super fine thread that have their own properties and that can join to form larger balls (that is, the individual segments curl to form what we perceive as a new dimension ). At least, that is how I envisage the two vortices working together, and also that matter as we know it is formed from individual segments that curl in on themselves to form one or more extra hidden dimensions. As to the balls of yarn 🧶 analogy, I do find such analogies useful to comprehend what could well be the case and, more importantly , how to communicate this understanding to others . It also fits in well with the whole concept of self-similar structures turning up time and again at different scaling nature - and what else do we ultimately learn from if not our observations of nature?

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Martin's avatar

This might be of interest to you Gordon. It’s linked to my attempt to think through things from the standpoint of Tesla’s metaphysics which I’ve been trying to get a handle on lately. Boscovitch as you probably know was read by Tesla along with Maxwell etc. Tesla’s views on space are very Leibnizian. And so I wondered if all of this could be understood as viewed through the lens of Leibniz’s monodaolgy, which in turn goes back to proclus and Plotinus, and the monad, dyad, hierarchy and ultimately back to Pythagoras via Plato. If we think that this technology may be acncient then it makes sense to try to think about it through their eyes does it not? https://www.academia.edu/27826397/Leibniz_the_Young_Kant_and_Boscovich_on_the_Relationality_of_Space?email_work_card=view-paper

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Gordon Docherty's avatar

Agreed - and it is interesting to note that Aristarchus (he of the heliocentric model well before Copernicus) was of the Pythagorean school , also influenced heavily by Anaxagoras (he of panspermia). So, yes, it does suggest the philosophical line of Pythagoras were drawing on far older ideas…

As to my previous reference to a “ball of yarn”, it would be more accurate to describe what I envisage as a fixed length of aether wrapping around into … a torus … with its own virtual centre, in form like that so vividly presented by David LaPoint in his Primer Field videos and Buddy James’ Dougherty Set - nature is fractal, after all

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Martin's avatar

I came across this and thought it might be of interest to you. It ties a lot of threads together. It would be great to get him aware of the MFMP. https://youtu.be/P2U-y_gI8Zc?si=UTnEYdaPrCft0fKt

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Martin's avatar

Wow. Thanks gordon. This is super useful stuff. Thanks for the response. Lots to wrap my mind around! Cheers.

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Simeon Hein's avatar

Hi Bob, thanks for reviewing the Nebraska/Iowa tornado footage. To me it looks like a room temperature evaporation, vaporization, or boiling of a solid substance: something very LENR-like that turns off at a specific distance from the central vortex. You'd have to be right at that spot to get a chemical sample. It seems reminiscent of Parkhomov's sudden building damage events that he attributes to small black holes in Space. Earth. Human. (BTW, your Sunday 22 CET is 2 PM here in Colorado, so can't always make the live broadcasts if it's a good day to be outdoors.)

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

These turbines are played with like they are made of grass.

https://youtu.be/R_ZDVYzIhgc?feature=shared&t=253

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Simeon Hein's avatar

Wow. So is it just wind speed shredding them or is there some ENC going on with that tower collapsing? As you pointed out in the previous video, the maximum speed of those birds on the outside of that tornado is just 40 mph. And they look fine.

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

From the videos here:

https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/insane-footage-shows-tornado-destroying-wind-farm-iowa

It looks like the towers are made from welded metal plates, like Musks Starships.

I believe that the condensed DM flux is causing changes in the electrons ability to hold the metal bonds ridged and so they fail easily.

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Simeon Hein's avatar

Yes, that makes sense and is consistent with everything we know from Matsumoto, Shoulders, Parkhomov, and Dirac. The wind towers are encountering another type of matter which ever so briefly collapses their atomic structure.

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

I am minded to agree with your assessment. More data will come as time goes by.

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

I understand, I have to do it at that time to get make it possible for the maximum number of English speakers to see it live.

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Simeon Hein's avatar

Of course, I'd do the same thing.

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Gordon Docherty's avatar

After adding the description of different types of moment - magnetic, electric, toroidal - an idea clear as day came to mind.

The magnetic moment will cause two or more magnets to spin to line up N-S N-S and so on in alignment with the broader magnetic field (that’s how compasses do what they do, of course ) Once in alignment the moment reduces to zero and the magnets stay at rest.

The electric moment will likewise cause a wire to rotate to be in alignment with the broader electric field. Once aligned, the wire will remain at rest.

The toroidal moment, however, is different: the toroidal moment causes the aether surrounding the toroid to spin and spin. In this way, the toroid both initiates and feeds vortices. Further, depending on the spin direction, the toroid either exerts a centripetal force, pulling aether (and matter) in towards its centre, or it exerts a centrifugal force, pushing aether (and matter) out from its centre, for as long as it can exert a force strong enough to overcome the pressure force in the centre or it has matter enough to pull out from the centre.

So, fractal toroids are natural, self forming motors for either winding aether and matter inward or pulling and unwinding aether and matter outward.

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Bob Greenyer's avatar

Not that I am not interested, I have had 45 hours of travel, been getting over jet lag, my son's birthday during week, activity day for him on Saturday and hosting Roger Green to prepare for conference in September.

I started to look at your videos, and I liked the bits I saw, just have not had time to return to them. I am doing the best I can with the hours I have whilst still trying to respect the needs of those that depend on me.

For the record, I have tried to make it clear that I don't normally interact one to one. I prefer people share publicly and I can respond as and when I have the capacity.

For most of the history of the MFMP I tried to keep the numbers of people engaging small until there was a good understanding of the process. Now that we may have a good understanding of the process, we have embarked on bringing more people into the fold. This means it is a lot more demanding to try an answer everyone.

The ULTR experiment is a whole blue ocean of opportunity for improvement and experiment, You have done good work. Thankyou. Hopefully this week I can find time to see it all.

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Tony Jaboney's avatar

Thanks for sharing these videos! Very interesting! Bob is one of the hardest workin' fellers I've met and there's a lot of Testing going on so sharing with the MFMP community is always a great way to get feedback and eyes on the recordings. The transparent spherical bowl setup is very intriguing. What are all of the fibers floating in the water? sometimes they very much show how the water's moving but sometimes they obscure the cavitation structures.

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