Well it’s got 4 poles.. so that’s a good start. Didn’t Tesla’s design at niagra follow quadra polar archetypes? Seem to remember reading Eric Dollards work on Tesla and 4 phases in nature
Tesla's patents were for multi-phase, but most of the diagrams showed only the minimum: 4-wire 2-phase. But there's a patent with a 3-phase motor, with six wires connecting it to an AC generator.
This was a big issue during the "second war of currents," after Edison was kicked out of his own company. Then, General Electric started major patent-piracy against Tesla, with the main idea being that Tesla somehow "forgot" to patent 3-phase, and only patented 2-phase. This new legal battle with Westinghouse was going to bankrupt both companies, so Morgan stepped in, knocked heads, and forced GE to stop their illegal moves. Instead, GE and Westinghouse formed a "patent pool," since GE had produced valid patents on some 3-phase tech.
Still today, many of the Tesla-critics (actually outright Tesla-haters) insist that 3-phase already existed before Tesla's breakthrough. Nope, it only existed as useless lab-curiousities in Europe, and the only industrial AC motors were synchronous, requireing a smaller DC motor to bring them up to operating speed..
When Tesla's patent-package first appeared, CEL Brown of Oerklion jumped on them, teamed up with the German DC company Edison-AEG, and built a 3-phase transmission line well before Westinghouse did. (CEL Brown had been wanting to build a bare-wire single-phase transmission line, to silence all the critics who deemed it impossible, laughing at the very idea of power lines with no gutta-percha coverings.) Brown stated that he made his bare-wire test also become a test of Tesla's polyphase. To Brown's dismay, AEG (and later GE) then started pretending to have invented the whole thing. All they really did was invent improvements on Tesla's breakthrough, same as happens with all major inventions (transistor and light-bulb and airplane, for example.) AEG's designer, Dovilio Dolvobrosksi, is on record saying that the real inventor of a new device is not the one who had the idea, nor the one who patented it. Instead it's the one who first built an industrial prototype (being dishonest, as if Tesla never built prototypes.) Tesla responded in public, saying he'd let the German courts decide the issue, since they had very strong opinions about what "patents" actually mean.
If the knife-switches turn out to be pre-1910 (with salty gutta-percha handles,) that would tell us something. Would pre-1900 MIT have built a copy from Tesla's patents? On the other hand, Tesla's actual prototypes sent out for independent testing were always expensive-looking, made by a skilled machinist who refused to spare expenses. See the early Tesla prototype on display at the Science Museum, in UK, with heavy-duty bearings, even with little oil-cups. Probably this was one sent out to disbelieving scientists, who insisted that AC motors were worthless because of low efficiency. (That was the ongoing controversy in the journals of the time) Tesla sent out his AC motors for efficiency-testing.
A similar motor to the one in your above YT video is in the 1893 photo at Columbian Exposition, partially hidden and laying on its side between the two egg-of-columbus units. We cannot see the rotor, but similar oil-cups appear to be present on the bearing assemblies.
Personally, I've been using Tesla's philosophy: put it in public, let everyone else find it. For example, this below from 11/2006 (see a very similar Tesla motor on loan from the Beograd Tesla Museum. It's only an interactive museum device, w/pushbutton. Also, the secret of Tesla's "death ray," but he used mercury rather than water, and high megavolts rather than 5KVDC )
Those types of items are dry rare I had one gven to me by adanace salvage it semi featured in a news story one me now uploaded on YouTube beautifull technogy what’s the weight of yours
The Beograd Tesla Museum has their copy on display, with a pushbutton. Above is a photo I took in 2006, when they took their device on the road to Vancouver CA, for International Symposium "Tesla Day" conference at SFU Simon Fraser in Vancouver CA., and here's some video of it NOT in action, since too many people had already pressed the button, and it shuts down for ten minutes, for overheat...
Looking closely, I think it's a six-coil motor, for running via widely-available 3-phase. The 4-coil motor should run using single-phase, if a large oil-capacitor is in series with one coil-pair, to produce a near-90deg phase shift in the current.
"Remote view," eh? How about this. In hyper-creative state, I'm inexplicably moved to actually read the piece of Goethe "Doctor Faustus" which Tesla was reciting at Varosliget. I find the darned thing in German, and have to translate it. ...then immediately I experience Tesla's mental breakthrough.
I conclude that nobody has actually read that thing (at least no tech people ...or, no tech people familiar with the Zenobe Gramme DC motor, the Anchor Ring.) What's in that play?
Well, Tesla is walking along a wooded lane at sunset, gesturing at the sun with his stick, and discussing with his colleague Szigeti, the Goethe poem about Faustus walking along a wooded lane at sunset, gesturing at the sun with his cane, in discussion with his colleague Wagner, and complaining that he was getting old, without having yet ever made any major scientific breakthroughs. Faustus is imagining that he could solve central secrets of science, if only he could rise up into the air, and halt in space. Then the sun would not set. Twilight would be perpetual, and the whole Earth would whiz beneath his feet at hundreds of MPH, townships mountains bays flying past underneath, until he's finally crossing the ocean. But then the glories fade, and he returns to himself, without having had any breakthrough. (Then he goes on to deal with Mephistopheles for scientific secrets ...but wastes them all in demonstrations before royalty.)
Having declaimed that passage, Tesla is struck by a thunderbolt. Same as I was. OF COURSE! IT'S SIMPLE! WHY HAS NOBODY SEEN THIS?!!!!
Tesla's mental breakthrough is utterly straighforward (and I've never seen it stated anywhere): in the Gramme Machine, just perform a Copernican inversion, where the moving sun halts, and instead the entire Earth starts rotating. The rotor or "gramme ring" is halted, and instead everything else starts spinning around it. The Gramme Ring is now the stator-coil. This instantly teaches us that the Gramme Ring had always been a rotary-field emitter, yet not even the top experts of the time had realized this. First you'd have to mentally ride along with the ring, while the magnets and commutators are being forced to turn (which produces relative torque, of course.) So, obviously just solder some wires to the edge of a Gramme Ring, move the commutators off to become part of a rotating polyphase AC source, and the Gramme Ring is now the stator for a brushless induction motor. Place copper objects or permanent magnets in the "donut hole." Obviously the field-coil of the resulting motor will be ring-shaped, and wound with a closed continuous coil of wire.
The mental breakthrough is instant, and ruptures the dam; that mental barrier holding back all other obvious AC motor concepts. (I was freaking out, IT EXPLAINS EVVVVVRYTHING ...but rather than drawing in the dirt with a stick, I went over to Quora and typed it in.)
---
PS
THe imaginal realm then says that Tesla now subconsciously believes he's Doctor Faustus, and must seduce and destroy an innocent girl, waste his talents parading before the wealthy, then finally Mephistopheles comes to claim him twenty four years later. This somewhat fits Tesla, but only if everything comes crashing down in 1905, and also where Mephistophales is JP Morgan. Heh.
In the 1893 photo, note the motor placed on its side between the two egg-of-columbus units. In the labeled photo, it has no label. (In the high-res Wikimedia photo you can use msPaint to magnify it greatly as below.) It appears to be nearly the same as your motor, but I think has much thicker metal cross-pieces.
If placed on its side as shown, and one or more egg-of-columbus coils turned on, that motor's rotor would begin spinning. A full-blown wireless induction motor.
Also, I note that these "Gramme Ring" types of wound-rotor Tesla-motors were the signature of Tesla's earliest versions. Track down the dates of known Tesla motors and see.
Much later versions of his motors had eliminated the torus-coil and instead moved the stator coils to the interior of the iron stator, for the same reason Edison and Siemens modified the DC "Gramme Machine: " the magnetic field then doesn't spew needlessly outwards, and this gives far higher magnetic coupling to the rotor, far higher maximum torque for small motors.
I conclude that these ring-motors would be Tesla's initial discovery, stemming right from the DC motor (Gramme anchor-ring,) and any actual artifacts would be the oldest. Certainly they're much older than the motors shown in 1893 photo, and older than Shallenberger's later modification, his with iron rotor-slots containing "squirrel cage" copper bars. - wbeaty, bill beaty, electrical engineer U. Washington Seattle
Well it’s got 4 poles.. so that’s a good start. Didn’t Tesla’s design at niagra follow quadra polar archetypes? Seem to remember reading Eric Dollards work on Tesla and 4 phases in nature
Should be easy to verify
Tesla's patents were for multi-phase, but most of the diagrams showed only the minimum: 4-wire 2-phase. But there's a patent with a 3-phase motor, with six wires connecting it to an AC generator.
This was a big issue during the "second war of currents," after Edison was kicked out of his own company. Then, General Electric started major patent-piracy against Tesla, with the main idea being that Tesla somehow "forgot" to patent 3-phase, and only patented 2-phase. This new legal battle with Westinghouse was going to bankrupt both companies, so Morgan stepped in, knocked heads, and forced GE to stop their illegal moves. Instead, GE and Westinghouse formed a "patent pool," since GE had produced valid patents on some 3-phase tech.
Still today, many of the Tesla-critics (actually outright Tesla-haters) insist that 3-phase already existed before Tesla's breakthrough. Nope, it only existed as useless lab-curiousities in Europe, and the only industrial AC motors were synchronous, requireing a smaller DC motor to bring them up to operating speed..
When Tesla's patent-package first appeared, CEL Brown of Oerklion jumped on them, teamed up with the German DC company Edison-AEG, and built a 3-phase transmission line well before Westinghouse did. (CEL Brown had been wanting to build a bare-wire single-phase transmission line, to silence all the critics who deemed it impossible, laughing at the very idea of power lines with no gutta-percha coverings.) Brown stated that he made his bare-wire test also become a test of Tesla's polyphase. To Brown's dismay, AEG (and later GE) then started pretending to have invented the whole thing. All they really did was invent improvements on Tesla's breakthrough, same as happens with all major inventions (transistor and light-bulb and airplane, for example.) AEG's designer, Dovilio Dolvobrosksi, is on record saying that the real inventor of a new device is not the one who had the idea, nor the one who patented it. Instead it's the one who first built an industrial prototype (being dishonest, as if Tesla never built prototypes.) Tesla responded in public, saying he'd let the German courts decide the issue, since they had very strong opinions about what "patents" actually mean.
This is too much darn fun! Thanks, MFMP!
No guarantees, but interesting all the same.
If the knife-switches turn out to be pre-1910 (with salty gutta-percha handles,) that would tell us something. Would pre-1900 MIT have built a copy from Tesla's patents? On the other hand, Tesla's actual prototypes sent out for independent testing were always expensive-looking, made by a skilled machinist who refused to spare expenses. See the early Tesla prototype on display at the Science Museum, in UK, with heavy-duty bearings, even with little oil-cups. Probably this was one sent out to disbelieving scientists, who insisted that AC motors were worthless because of low efficiency. (That was the ongoing controversy in the journals of the time) Tesla sent out his AC motors for efficiency-testing.
- https://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/ac/TeslaMotorBritishMuseum.JPG - - - - - - - - - - - - 12-phase Tesla prototype (appears wired for 2-phase operation)
.
A similar motor to the one in your above YT video is in the 1893 photo at Columbian Exposition, partially hidden and laying on its side between the two egg-of-columbus units. We cannot see the rotor, but similar oil-cups appear to be present on the bearing assemblies.
- https://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/TesMotor1893.jpg
We can today purchase a Tesla motor for classroom demonstrations...
- https://antiquefanparts.com/circa-1885-90-max-kohl-tesla-demo-motor/
---
Personally, I've been using Tesla's philosophy: put it in public, let everyone else find it. For example, this below from 11/2006 (see a very similar Tesla motor on loan from the Beograd Tesla Museum. It's only an interactive museum device, w/pushbutton. Also, the secret of Tesla's "death ray," but he used mercury rather than water, and high megavolts rather than 5KVDC )
- 2006 Tesla international symposium, "Tesla Day" at SFU in Vancouver, CA - - - - - - - - - - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3dVpK23xo
.
Those types of items are dry rare I had one gven to me by adanace salvage it semi featured in a news story one me now uploaded on YouTube beautifull technogy what’s the weight of yours
, mine was about 200 poundsc
Another motor photo, of similar motor in working museum exhibit.
* https://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/TesMuseumMotor.jpg
The Beograd Tesla Museum has their copy on display, with a pushbutton. Above is a photo I took in 2006, when they took their device on the road to Vancouver CA, for International Symposium "Tesla Day" conference at SFU Simon Fraser in Vancouver CA., and here's some video of it NOT in action, since too many people had already pressed the button, and it shuts down for ten minutes, for overheat...
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX3dVpK23xo&t=72s
Looking closely, I think it's a six-coil motor, for running via widely-available 3-phase. The 4-coil motor should run using single-phase, if a large oil-capacitor is in series with one coil-pair, to produce a near-90deg phase shift in the current.
"Remote view," eh? How about this. In hyper-creative state, I'm inexplicably moved to actually read the piece of Goethe "Doctor Faustus" which Tesla was reciting at Varosliget. I find the darned thing in German, and have to translate it. ...then immediately I experience Tesla's mental breakthrough.
I conclude that nobody has actually read that thing (at least no tech people ...or, no tech people familiar with the Zenobe Gramme DC motor, the Anchor Ring.) What's in that play?
Well, Tesla is walking along a wooded lane at sunset, gesturing at the sun with his stick, and discussing with his colleague Szigeti, the Goethe poem about Faustus walking along a wooded lane at sunset, gesturing at the sun with his cane, in discussion with his colleague Wagner, and complaining that he was getting old, without having yet ever made any major scientific breakthroughs. Faustus is imagining that he could solve central secrets of science, if only he could rise up into the air, and halt in space. Then the sun would not set. Twilight would be perpetual, and the whole Earth would whiz beneath his feet at hundreds of MPH, townships mountains bays flying past underneath, until he's finally crossing the ocean. But then the glories fade, and he returns to himself, without having had any breakthrough. (Then he goes on to deal with Mephistopheles for scientific secrets ...but wastes them all in demonstrations before royalty.)
Having declaimed that passage, Tesla is struck by a thunderbolt. Same as I was. OF COURSE! IT'S SIMPLE! WHY HAS NOBODY SEEN THIS?!!!!
Tesla's mental breakthrough is utterly straighforward (and I've never seen it stated anywhere): in the Gramme Machine, just perform a Copernican inversion, where the moving sun halts, and instead the entire Earth starts rotating. The rotor or "gramme ring" is halted, and instead everything else starts spinning around it. The Gramme Ring is now the stator-coil. This instantly teaches us that the Gramme Ring had always been a rotary-field emitter, yet not even the top experts of the time had realized this. First you'd have to mentally ride along with the ring, while the magnets and commutators are being forced to turn (which produces relative torque, of course.) So, obviously just solder some wires to the edge of a Gramme Ring, move the commutators off to become part of a rotating polyphase AC source, and the Gramme Ring is now the stator for a brushless induction motor. Place copper objects or permanent magnets in the "donut hole." Obviously the field-coil of the resulting motor will be ring-shaped, and wound with a closed continuous coil of wire.
The mental breakthrough is instant, and ruptures the dam; that mental barrier holding back all other obvious AC motor concepts. (I was freaking out, IT EXPLAINS EVVVVVRYTHING ...but rather than drawing in the dirt with a stick, I went over to Quora and typed it in.)
---
PS
THe imaginal realm then says that Tesla now subconsciously believes he's Doctor Faustus, and must seduce and destroy an innocent girl, waste his talents parading before the wealthy, then finally Mephistopheles comes to claim him twenty four years later. This somewhat fits Tesla, but only if everything comes crashing down in 1905, and also where Mephistophales is JP Morgan. Heh.
.
In the 1893 photo, note the motor placed on its side between the two egg-of-columbus units. In the labeled photo, it has no label. (In the high-res Wikimedia photo you can use msPaint to magnify it greatly as below.) It appears to be nearly the same as your motor, but I think has much thicker metal cross-pieces.
- https://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/TesMotor1893.jpg
If placed on its side as shown, and one or more egg-of-columbus coils turned on, that motor's rotor would begin spinning. A full-blown wireless induction motor.
Also, I note that these "Gramme Ring" types of wound-rotor Tesla-motors were the signature of Tesla's earliest versions. Track down the dates of known Tesla motors and see.
Much later versions of his motors had eliminated the torus-coil and instead moved the stator coils to the interior of the iron stator, for the same reason Edison and Siemens modified the DC "Gramme Machine: " the magnetic field then doesn't spew needlessly outwards, and this gives far higher magnetic coupling to the rotor, far higher maximum torque for small motors.
I conclude that these ring-motors would be Tesla's initial discovery, stemming right from the DC motor (Gramme anchor-ring,) and any actual artifacts would be the oldest. Certainly they're much older than the motors shown in 1893 photo, and older than Shallenberger's later modification, his with iron rotor-slots containing "squirrel cage" copper bars. - wbeaty, bill beaty, electrical engineer U. Washington Seattle